I have been gone for a long time. Between school and life i have been deligently trying to update this blog on a regular bases. Today we will talk about why Non ismailis are not allowed in Jamat Khana?
First and formost it is important to learn the ismailis take their faith at a high regard. They dont want people joining the faith and not practicing it. Also an ismaili is given Bayat (an oath) to the Imam of The Time that he will follow the Imam's word. Like mentioned in previous post the Imam is not voted upon but he is borned. Allah choose who the Imam will be. So when one gives a Bayat he is givening the Bayat to Allah. This Bayat is a personal bayat. after the bayat of the Baby he or she is allowed to come into Jamat Khana and at the age of five the child goes to religious school and goes through 12 years of religious education. If a non Ismaili Muslim wants to become an Ismaili Muslim the person has to go through the same process. This is because we take our faith very seriously. Any ways back to why non ismailis arent allowed in.
First and formost in Jamat Khana the ismailis have religious ceremonies. These ceremonies are esoteric and not exoteric. If a non ismaili was allowed in then that person whould be totally lost on what is going on. Also Ismailis view the Jamat Khana has their safe Haven wear they can practice their faith without any fear and could concentrate on the Bayat that was given to the Imam Of the Time. If a non ismaili was allowed in this concentration would be broken because of the fact that the non ismaili would be confused.
Know to all those muslims that want quranic proof of not letting other faith into religious mosques and stuff. Why cant non muslims enter Makkah. The answer is simple because the quran says that a non Muslim may not enter Makkah. The same concept applies to Jamat Khana BUT THAT DOESNT MEANS ONE ISNT A MUSLIM IT JUST MEANS THAT ONE ISNT AN ISMAILI.
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but everyone knows exactly what goes on in Makkah bcuz its all been documented. and in some instances the saudi gov't has allowed non-muslims to make documentaries in makkah. can we know exactly what goes on in ur jamatkhanas? can u post a video?
I was born an Ismaili, I now just go to Masjit, why I switched...
Well I'm a very curious person, I feel like any type of Muslim, especially being Ismaili, a goal in life if to be open-minded and simply not ignorant.
So I have been to a Church, been to a Synagogue, been to Masjit and have prayed with their congregation and been welcomed with open arms.
Now I live 30 miles away from ground zero, its not easy being a Muslim here let alone practicing here. My friend, who is Jewish, asked to come to Jamaat Khana with me. He simply said, you are one of my closest friends, I want to learn about your culture and religion.
Long story short; he wasn't allowed in. Now we simply just went to Masjit instead and the whole congregation welcomed us and gave my friend admiration for wanting to learn about Islam on his own will.
Now what exactly are we hiding in Jamaat Khana?
What exactly do we do in our services that the world cannot see?
Every house of God has accepted me with open arms...why can't we?
Adam, for you to take your friend to Masjid is fine. However, the reason, you cannot bring your friend to a JK is because he has not given his allegiance to our Imam. What we do in JK is done in an esoteric manner and is meant for just the Ismailis. Do you understand all the ceremonies? You are able to take your friend to JK during non prayer time. Meaning, you can give him a tour of the JK when we are not praying. If he is truly your friend, and you explain to him that you can only show him JK but can't take him during prayer times than he should understand. However, out of curiosity, have you been able to attend Karbala group of the Jewish faith?
In response to Kamran's question. Why do you feel it's necessary to video tape what goes on in our JK? Just curious to know. Because for me, it's meant for Ismailis only. Have you seen a video of what goes on in the Karbala community? There are many videos of the Soloman's temple, explaining all about it and it's documented. It would be interesting to hear from you both. Thanks
So we haven't given allegiance to Jesus but they still let us in church. I think if others are curious to know how things work with Ismailis they shouldn't be stopped. that just makes us the ones who restrict others in doinga harmless thing where they want to broaden their tolerance and knowledge. half the people these days in khane don't even have concentration because they are so materialistic anyways. Because we stop others from coming in just to even observe quietly, it sends out the wrong message like we are hiding something.
The truth is that making a partner with Allah is the biggest sin. Mentionned many times in the Quran. Do ismailis read Quran . Most dont. If u pray to / ask a human being to grant you things you are committing shirk. Dnt try to confuse this clear basic point with talk of esoteric and batini. Try to think about and get sum real education.
the truth is that ismailkis do shirk by doing sujud in front bof agakhan photo
the truth is that ismailkis do shirk by doing sujud in front bof agakhan photo
The Ismailis perform their prayers like a hamster runs his wheel. Same shit, same shit, same shit... EVRYDAY. They have no clue about the Kiblah, the reason for being a unison force when praying, they do not even say, ' Audhu billahi mina shaitani rajeem' before they start their 6 part dua. They would not be able to stand to questions because they themselves do not understand it. When cornered, they will say, ' Our religion is essoteric, you will not understand'. They are a LOST community. Forgive them. They do not follow Muslim dress attire. I can literally get a hard on when a woman gets on stage to recite something. It is quite sexy.
The community is losing even further everyday.Even the rituals and practices are going defunct and losing meaning. So many people turn to other forms of spiritual practice and keep a finger in the Ismail community's backside in order not to offend their elder family members. It is truly a daisy club with no orgasmic progress - please take this poetically. I am of the same community and once in a while i go to the mosque in Dar es Salaam to reaffirm my findings. Even their constitution (can be found online) is a flimsy dictatorial document that has absolutely njo meaning - for example they do not even have the option to let people know how to leave the bloody community. In Tanzania, 80% (yes eighty percent) of the Ismaili community lives BELOW THE POVERTY line, and yet when the Agakhan has an orgasm and shares it with them, so much money is spilled into decorating and shit. Recently when the Agakhan's son's wife got pregnant, even those whom I thought could never be Ismailis came to the mosque because there was chana bateta and soda. It is really fucked up. Leave them to their deeds. Vist and read Surah Bakarah.
First off, Asalam Walakum to all. Second, just for the record, I am a Sunni Muslim. From an ethnicity I am part Yemeni and party Pakistani and an American citizen that has grown up in Texas and Makkah, Saudi Arabia.
Living in Texas for some time I asked my friend who's mother was Ismaili and father a Sunni if he could take me to the Jamat Khana. He looked at me and laughed saying, "I aint allowed." In addition, he mentioned he is not allowed either since he is not Ismaili.
One thing that struck me was I can attend any place of worship, but I am now allowed to enter for the sake of visiting unless I give bay'a. Personally, I find that difficult to swallow.
Similarly, Muslims of all sects are allowed to enter Makkah as guests of Allah. As Muslims (including all sects) believe and worship Allah, then there is no issue what so ever nor does he or she have to establish a contract with Allah to enter the haduud (boundary) of Makkah.
And to let folks know here, I have had colleagues in the past take non-Muslims to Makkah and the Madina several times without any issues. The purpose of the visit was not to convert them, but it was a self-initiated request by the non-Muslims guests to learn more. The non-Muslims were not required to give bay'a to Allah prior to entering the cities and place of worship.
I hope you can shed more light on ths matter?
And for those that are name calling people. I will be the first to say it, I need to look into my own closet for mistakes and rectify them before passing judgment to others. As a Sunni Muslim, we have a great amount of division and hatred for each other.
Thank you.
Dear All,
I am a 24 year old Indian student, Shia Imami Ismaili living in Gujarat. I've been practicing this faith since last 24 years.
I will tell you what exactly this is all about. In one word "MONEY".
I will tell you exactly what is happening in the Indian Jamatkhanas now a days, the entire system is created in a such a way that, you're forced to pay money every five minutes from the moment you enter into jamatkhana.There is a very smart system of creating a social pressure, it's not compulsory, but it's a propoganda, they will link everything with money, if you can pay good money, your sins will be forgiven, if you don't pay, you will suffer. This is the ideology the representativs are preaching. If you ask questions they don't like it, because they don't have answers.
That's the true reason they don't allow others to visit Jamatkhana, becasue they are fearful of if others will enter, the truth will get exposed.
If someone is interested in knowing the minute details you can send email to me on hectortroy1988@gmail.com. I will explain you how this so called His Highness has created an empire of Money by fooling Millions of his followers.
Dear all.
No ismaili going to answer you about anything. I have been there Jamat khana so many in South Kensington and was married to Ismaili for 4 years and then divorced when they tried to force me on consent form for my daughter to do bayat.
1- they don't believe on anything for example namaz/salat they innovated some kind of dua which they says this namaz.
2- most shocking thing they call them Muslim but they don't believe on Quran nauzbillah their excuse is that Quran was time bound book and whatever imam says basically that's Quran even some says our imam is walking talking Quran(nauzbillah). Agha khan or his forefathers never ever translate the Quran and they don't recommend you to read any translation beacsuse "if you will read you will find out truth"
Zakat is totally opposite to the Muslims. Muslims pay zakat after an year but their imam said pay every month 10% of wages as a charity. And he (agha khan) owns whole island in France got private jets , yachts and he talk about give him 10% for charity.
Some Ismaili girls have faith told by imam that they are allowed to marry anyone or people from book approved by imam not Islam. I will give you a reason why because his own Daughter Zara married to a non Muslim she he had no arguments to stop his follower not to marry a non Muslim. I met so many girls in jamat khana who married to Hindus aswel.
In their jamat khana if you go there at their dua time you won't feel this is a place to pray it's more like a night club where girls are wearing mini skirts and all sort of things and when I tried to find out it was shocking that majority of them are young and single and trying to find partners because they believe on relationship before marriage there's no concept of ZINA. They don't even knows the meaning of ZINA and how would they know their imams whole family had relationships from Zara to raheem.
They don't believe on fasting even I heard few Ismailis criticising on Muslims with a nonsense excuse that fasting should be whole year not only one month.
They don't believe on hajj they says deedar of imam is hajj (nauzbillah).
And last thing they won't listen to you they won't believe you doesn't matter how logically you talk to them to prove them from Quran and Hadith. They won't believe you that's why Allah says in the Quran
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path].
Exactly, it's all about money
95% of Muslim world doesn't know what are they practicing and for non Muslims on this blog basically they are not trying to stop non Muslims to go to prayer halls they are trying to stop MUSLIMS agha khan don't want Muslims world know his practicing and his business. And he's more happy to call himself a so called prince than imam. Their girls are marrying to non Muslims and first thing they ask is children would be Ismailis and will have bayat. That's how this community is growing and that's how he's getting richer and richer day by day. He (agha khan) is investing on children who are not even born asking his followers to make sure children will be Ismaili so his business will grow more.
You can ask any question I am here to reply coz nobody knows them more than me.
@Imaanemuhammad I don't know any Ismaili girls married to hindus, not 1, you're making propaganda,Ismaili girls aren't allowed to marry outsiders, if that was the case, you would see Hindu last names in Jammat Khanas which is never the case, go to any facebook friend page of Ismailis, you won't find any Hindu surnames, some Hindu and Sunni girls marry Ismaili guys and their last names change to the guys last name.
Thetruth yes @ it’s not propaganda it’s my personal experience. I personally know the girls married to Hindu guys. How do I know? Because they are related to my ex wife. I have been your Jamat khanas for 4 years. I spoke to your scholars to make my wife to stop to believe on
This kafir. Who mislead 1.5 millions Ismailis to hell fire.
And you dint reply to all questions I asked about your belief
“Why is the prayer space inside the Jamatkhana restricted only to Ismailis during congregational practice times?”
Like many religious communities and traditions, one important way in which Ismailis have maintained, preserved and transmitted their identity, wherever they have lived, has been through their places of gathering and prayer, including the most widely known space used today, the Jamatkhana.
Unlike non-denominational masjids, or mosques, which are public places, the Jamatkhana is a private space of gathering under the control of the Shia Ismaili Muslim Imam. The establishment, development and use of the Jamatkhana spaces and the variety of rituals performed in them is based on the authority, prerogative, and guidance of the hereditary Imam of the Time, descended from the Ahl-al Bayt (People of the House) of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family).
Access to Congregational Worship in Jamatkhanas
A Jamatkhana is designated by the Imam for the use of Ismailis for Tariqah practices. Differentiated as a Tariqah-specific space of worship and gathering, the practices within it are inherently linked to the relationship between the Imam and his murids, or followers, and are thus limited to those who have given their bay‘a, or allegiance, to the Imam of the Time.
The practice of giving bay‘a as an oath of allegiance is rooted in the custom of the Prophet and in several verses of the Qur’an. In many Muslim traditions, it means to offer oneself to a spiritual master in exchange for spiritual knowledge and guidance. For Shia Ismaili Muslims, bay‘a is, “the acceptance of the permanent spiritual bond between the Imam and the murid, uniting all Ismaili Muslims worldwide in their loyalty, devotion and obedience to the Imam within the Islamic concept of universal brotherhood.”
Therefore, the principle of admission to Jamatkhana for congregational worship on the basis of bay‘a to the Imam is one that cannot be compromised.
Throughout history, Ismailis have had private spaces limited to those who have given bay‘a to the Imam. According to the article “Ismaili History” by Dr. Farhad Daftary, during the Fatimid period when the Ismaili Imamat ruled a state based in North Africa and Egypt, “private lectures on Ismaili esoteric doctrine, known as the majalis al-hikma or ‘sessions of wisdom,’ were reserved exclusively for the Ismaili initiates who had already taken the oath of allegiance…”
However, while Tariqah-specific congregational prayers held in the Jamatkhana prayer hall are only for the members of the Ismaili community, many other spaces within Jamatkhana complexes are open to the larger community within which they live. They function as religious, educational and social centres, promoting dialogue, discussion and community building.
Public and Private Spaces of Religious Gathering
The notion of public and private spaces and restricted participation during the performance of specific practices and prayers is not unique to the Ismaili Tariqah and its Jamatkhanas. Beyond Islam, similar restrictions on access to spaces and practices are common across other religious traditions and communities.
For example, in a Synagogue, only members of the Jewish faith are able to participate in all rituals. Similarly, not everyone can enter into Catholic oratories and chapels; nor can everyone enter all the monasteries, nunneries, or retreats of the Jesuits. While Mormon chapels are open to the public, Mormon temples are reserved only for baptized members in good standing. All Buddhist spaces are also not equally accessible to everyone.
Within Islam, there are many communities of interpretation that also designate certain spaces, times, thresholds, ritual performances and contexts as private and confined to those having provided their bay‘a to the shaykh, murshid or the Imam of that community, particularly those who lean towards an esoteric or batini interpretation of faith, like Ismailis.
Previously, we discussed the Ribat, Zawiya, Tekke and Khanaqah, which are all spaces traditionally associated with Sufi Tariqahs. Some are open to the public and others are reserved for private, Tariqah-specific practices.
In his article “Muslim Spaces of Piety and Worship,” Karim Jiwani writes,
“Admission to such spaces is usually open to all, but this is not universally true. For instance, khanaqahs of the Suhrawardi Order in India are known to restrict participation to those who have given their bay‘a, pledge of allegiance, to the pir or shaykh of the Sufi Order. With regard to the issue of the exclusivity of such spaces, Sunni jurists have viewed it to be a matter dependent on custom.”
Similar to many diverse practices within and beyond Islam, as Ismailis we also acknowledge that we belong to the larger family of humanity and have non-Ismaili members as part of our families and network of close relations. Therefore, many of our Jamatkhanas, particularly the Ismaili Centres, also include spaces which welcome non-Ismailis to share in our communal home with us. This ethos was emphasized by Mawlana Hazar Imam at the opening of the Ismaili Centre, Toronto in 2014:
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